Casey Anthony's Bondsmen 'On the Record'
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 15, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, we could be just a few short hours from jailed mother Casey Anthony walking right out of jail. The jailed mother has a $500,000 bond on her head right now, but in moments, you will meet the bounty hunter and the bail bondsmen planning to post Casey's big bond. Casey has been behind bars since July 16, the only person of interest in her daughter, Caylee's, disappearance.
Leonard and Tony Padilla are headed to Orlando, Florida, this weekend and plan to have Casey out of jail as early as next week. The question is why. Joining us live is Leonard Padilla, and on the phone, his nephew, Tony Padilla.
Leonard, let me go first to you. You want her out of jail?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I think she'd be a lot easier to deal with and possibly supply information that would be more helpful than having her, you know, in that 7-by-12-foot cell. I got to believe that -- it hasn't worked for 30 days, so let's try something different.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, why do you care? You live in California. She's locked up in Florida. There are a lot of bail bondsmen between California and Florida. Why you?
Watch Greta's interview
LEONARD PADILLA: Well, as I explained -- I'm not a bail agent, I'm a bounty hunter. And I explained to my nephew sometimes, you know, these impossible tasks take a one-sided situation. Nobody, I believe, is looking for her as if she is alive. I believe she's alive . I somewhat believe that, in her own mind, the mother has given up some truths in the statements she's made.
I'm not saying the police department doesn't know what they're doing. I'm just saying, let's look at it from out-of-the-box type thinking that maybe there's a lot of truth, or some truth, in what she has said and there is a lady out there by the name of Zenaida, and she did turn the baby over to her. And God only knows what Zenaida decided to do once she had the baby. I mean, she's a cute little girl, and a 3-year-old would fetch a pretty penny on some markets in this world.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me go to Tony, who is an actual bail bondsman. Leonard, you're the bounty hunter. Tony...
LEONARD PADILLA: I'm the bounty hunter, he's the bail agent.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Tony, what are getting as collateral for this?
TONY PADILLA, BAIL BONDSMAN: Basically, the financial terms of this - - there's nothing financially that we're involved with or anything. We're just basically getting her out, and the most important thing here is the result of getting Caylee back home or finding out exactly what's going on in the case. And that's -- Leonard has a very unique way of doing things like this, and I think Leonard's the right man for the job and I trust -- all my confidence...
VAN SUSTEREN: Tony? Tony, someone's got to -- someone's got to write a check for $50,000, right?
TONY PADILLA: No, that's not...
VAN SUSTEREN: Or $500,000. No one's -- then what's -- how much is it -- what's it going to take to get her out?
TONY PADILLA: It's going to cost -- basically, I'm putting up $500,000 to get her out.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you're pulling the full freight. If she doesn't pay -- typically, she gets to pay you 10 percent of the $500,000, right, the $50,000?
TONY PADILLA: That's correct.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now -- so you have nothing -- you're not asking for $50,000 being put up.
TONY PADILLA: Basically, we're paying for the bond costs and everything like that and flying out there all on our own money.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken -- Tony, I know that you haven't to Casey. Have you spoken to Casey's parents?
TONY PADILLA: I haven't spoken with anybody other than Houston (ph), getting all the paperwork done so that we could get the bond and get it posted.
VAN SUSTEREN: Leonard, have you spoken to the grandparents?
LEONARD PADILLA: No, I've only had contact with one person, and that's Jose Baez, the defendant's attorney.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, do either of you know Larry Garrison, who will be joining us in a minute?
TONY PADILLA: No, I do not.
LEONARD PADILLA: I've crossed paths with him on occasion.
VAN SUSTEREN: What does that mean?
LEONARD PADILLA: I've heard of him and I've seen him, and I know what he does.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you ever met him?
LEONARD PADILLA: I don't think so. The name rings a bell, but not to the point...
VAN SUSTEREN: Your voice sounded rather sober with that, and I'm wondering if that was...
LEONARD PADILLA: Oh, no, no, no, no, no! I don't know that I know him. I was thinking, because I think I -- I mean, I meet a lot of people, and sometimes, I can remember a name. But I -- I remember the name, but I don't know if I've met him, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Leonard, do you think that she has nothing to do with the disappearance of her daughter? And by "she," I mean Casey.
LEONARD PADILLA: Well, I think she has this much, and that is, she entrusted somebody with her child. And then I think she was out there, trying to get her child back and didn't say anything to people. And I believe -- I believe her when she says that she was looking.
VAN SUSTEREN: How do you believe it? Why do you believe that? I mean, like, I tell you, you're the one. I mean, I -- there aren't a lot of people who do think that, I mean, because most people would expect that the mother of a missing child would be talking and cooperating and helping the police. That's not happening, according to the sheriff's office.
LEONARD PADILLA: No. No, I've seen -- I've seen situations where people don't contact the police because they're told, If you contact the police, then we're going to kill your child. And they don't. They just don't. And there's -- here's the thing. Let me tell you something, Greta. I'm a Mexican, and I know that if you're going to come up with a phony name for a nanny, Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez is not too simple. You're going to come up with Rosa or you're going to come up with Patricia or Anjelica. That is too complicated a name. There's got to be some truth in that thing.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So the fact that we know of no ransom note or demand for the child is insignificant to you. The fact that the child disappeared on or about the 16th of June and she's out partying on the 20th in a club and seems to -- everything's normal, that doesn't bother you. The fact that when her mother finally catches up with her on July 15 and says, Where's my granddaughter, and she says she'll be home tomorrow, and that was a lie -- none of that bothers you. You're still willing to believe this version.
LEONARD PADILLA: I still believe that the child's alive. And I think that in her own mind, there was a certain amount of comfort zone for her to still go out and party and all that because originally, I believe she gave up the child to a baby-sitter that she probably didn't know that well so that she could go partying -- she could go with her new boyfriend. That's what I think has happened.
VAN SUSTEREN: Tony, where do you -- where do you -- what do you think in this?
TONY PADILLA: You know, Greta, basically, I'm the bail agent posting the bond. As far as bounty hunting and thoughts like that and being able to insight into that, that's all Leonard's gig. I'm not very good at that, to be honest with you.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know what's sort of interesting, Tony, is that if you post $500,000 and she hits the road, you're on the hook for $500,000. You've never met her. You've never talked to her. You don't know anything about it. I frankly don't think she'll run. I mean, I really don't think you're at risk, but nonetheless...
LEONARD PADILLA: Greta, let me -- Greta?
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes?
LEONARD PADILLA: Let me interrupt you, Greta. The court has ordered electronic monitoring 24/7 for her. She can't leave the residence. It has to be hooked up through the phone. She cannot...
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think she's -- you know, I don't think she's going to run, either. You and I are on the same page.
LEONARD PADILLA: No. And I have 24/7 people with me that are going back there besides me and Tony that are going to be 24/7 with her. We're not letting her out of our eyesight.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, as suspicious as I am, that's the one thing is I'm not suspicious she's going to run. You know, it's unusual -- the odd thing is, is that people who do get out of jail, most of them don't run.
LEONARD PADILLA: Here's the thing. If something happened and people started jamming her about her granddaughter -- excuse me, about her daughter -- and she believed, OK, I've done this, I've, you know, burned the body, buried it out here in the swamp -- if she was going to run, she'd have been long gone. She didn't have to wait to go to jail and then get out and then run.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So Tony, you're unwilling to go out on a limb with Leonard on this that you buy this version of the baby-sitter, the kidnapping and the whole works, right?
TONY PADILLA: Honestly, Leonard and I haven't had very much time to talk about the details of that. We've been mostly -- I've been doing the negotiations behind -- about getting the bond and making sure that all the paperwork is posted properly.
VAN SUSTEREN: But wait a second, Tony. I mean -- I mean, like -- you must have some interest in this because you want to make sure she doesn't run. I mean, why do you -- why are you posting a bond for someone who lives all the way across the country? And you don't -- you haven't spoken to her, you haven't spoken to her parents. It's not secure. I mean, like, you -- I mean, I could at least understand if you were committed to the fact that she was being wrongfully suspected or something.
TONY PADILLA: Well, whether she's being wrongly suspected or anything like that, that's really none of my business. The most important thing for me is the daughter, the girl. I have two daughters myself, and this thing's been dragging on for two months. Leonard's been making mention of it. And he seems to have a pretty good insight into this. And basically, I'm going off the confidence of my uncle. I've seen him do some miracles before, and I'm hoping he can work another one.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you guys arrive on Sunday. When do you expect, Leonard, she'll be walking out the door? What's your best estimate?
LEONARD PADILLA: I'm thinking that the attorney will meet with us Monday morning and he will inform the court that there's a bond to be placed. The court will then issue written instructions as to what they want, and then the bond will be put down. And it could be Monday afternoon or Tuesday.
VAN SUSTEREN: Tony, got all the paperwork done, ready to go?
TONY PADILLA: All the paperwork's done and ready to go. We're just waiting to see what the demands are going to be as far as the ankle monitor and surveillance and things like that.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, I actually think, Tony, your money is safe. I don't think she's going anyplace. But there are other things I disagree at least with Leonard about. I'm a little more suspicious than Leonard. But anyway, Leonard, Tony, good luck. And I'm sure we'll catch up -- can we see you Monday night? Will you come back here Monday night?
TONY PADILLA: Sure thing.
LEONARD PADILLA: We'll be there Sunday afternoon.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Good. Well -- but you're going to come back on the show Monday night, right? Right, Leonard?
LEONARD PADILLA: Well, I -- that's -- I think so, yes, Greta. I believe so.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Good. All right. I've booked you before millions of people, so there's your word. Anyway, thank you both, gentlemen.
TONY PADILLA: Thanks, Greta.
LEONARD PADILLA: Very good.
VAN SUSTEREN: Yesterday, Caylee's grandparents, Cindy and George Anthony, visited their daughter, Casey, in jail. Casey's parents left the jail understandably upset. They were visibly upset. Cindy was in tears. A tape of that jailhouse visit has not yet been released to the public.
And joining us live in Orlando is Holly Bristow, a reporter for WOFL. Holly spoke to Cindy and George Anthony after they visited Casey in jail. Holly, what did they say to you?
HOLLY BRISTOW, WOFL: Well, they said that they had a good visit. Obviously, it's not an easy for them to go in and see their daughter behind bars. They said it was a very emotional visit and very sad, but at the same time, a good visit, sad in that, again, that she's behind bars, but good in the fact that they actually got to lay eyes on her for the first time in several days.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now the controversy over the pinging off the cell towers. Have you been able to confirm that investigators are looking at pinging off cell towers in a particular area?
BRISTOW: You know, we've been hearing lots about this pinging off the cell phones, and I haven't gotten the same answer out of more than one person at the sheriff's office. So at this point, I really can't give you an accurate answer on that.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do you -- what are you hearing on the ground? And I understand hearing -- I realize it's a lot different than proof, but what's the word on the ground?
BRISTOW: You know, some people are saying that they're in an area over by the airport in the woods. The next thing you know, we're hearing that that's not happening. It's just kind of a back-and-forth, back-and- forth. They've really gotten to the point that there have been so many rumors surrounding this case that they've really kept a tight lid on things today and really haven't told us where in terms of the investigation and where they're searching.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Has it been a blockbuster announcement that two men are headed to Florida, one has got a bond ready to go, ready to spring her?
BRISTOW: It was definitely a pretty big surprise. In fact, I talked to Cindy Anthony shortly after I had heard about that. She hadn't heard anything of it. I'd been text-messaging back and forth with Casey's brother, Lee. That's the way he usually communicates. And he said that he had heard nothing of it. And I said, For real? Are you being serious? Are you being truthful, or are you kidding? And he said, This is honestly the first time I've heard of this.
So obviously, the parents are just learning about this for the first time. And last time I had actually spoken with them about the possibility of her coming home, before anybody had even come up with this bail money, you know, they said that it's going to take a lot. They don't know if they're going to feel comfortable bringing her home to this house. Obviously, they're pretty much living in a fishbowl, at this point. We're here, you know, pretty much 16 hours a day, between all the networks and the local stations out here. So you know, they're going to have to find a place to keep her that they can keep her away from the media, and you know, keep her in a location that it's not going to jeopardize the investigation.
VAN SUSTEREN: Indeed. Holly, thank you.
Coming up: Well, you just did hear the bombshell news. Casey Anthony could be a free woman in just a matter of two days. Her parents react to this bombshell news coming up.
And later: There is other big news tonight. We are following another developing situation in Florida. It's the pings. Could the pings from Casey's cell phone lead investigators to a crime scene before she's ever had a chance to even walk out of jail? We're going to tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Could jailed mother Casey Anthony be just two days away from walking right out of jail? A bounty hunter and a bail bondsman are headed to Florida this weekend to post the jailed mother's $500,000 bond. Casey, as you know, is in jail, accused of child neglect and lying to investigators after failing to report her daughter, Caylee, missing.
It was the child's grandmother who ultimately reported little Caylee missing, and that report came more than a month after the toddler supposedly vanished.
Joining us live is Larry Garrison, spokesperson for the Anthony family. And that's a new title for you tonight, isn't it, spokesperson for the Anthony family.
LARRY GARRISON, ANTHONY FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Yes, it is.
VAN SUSTEREN: What will you be doing? ...
GARRISON: How are you?
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm very well, Larry. What will you be doing?
GARRISON: Well, basically, there's been a spin going on out there, and I'm going to try and give the family their lives back.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. The spin being what?
Watch Greta's interview
GARRISON: There have been so many people that have reported erroneous things, and it seems like this is being tried in the press when, in essence, it's deterring people from coming forward. There have been three people just recently who have stepped forward with sightings of this little girl, and it's a shame that there's a spin out there right now and that the press is trying this case on TV.
VAN SUSTEREN: Larry, nothing -- there's nothing I would like more than to have my suspicions be totally wrong in this case. I would love to have that because there's nothing I like -- there's nothing -- I mean, having a child harmed, having a mother in jeopardy, all of it. However, is it spin when you look at the facts? Facts are different than spin. We know that on the 16th, the grandfather says he saw the child. She then leaves for approximately one month, and the child is missing. And she lies to the mother on the 15th of July, saying the child is coming home the next day. Is that spin? Is the fact that she acts perfectly normal and goes to a club and acts like all is well and lies to the roommate that she's living with in June as to where Caylee is -- is that spin, or are those facts?
GARRISON: Well, let me ask you a question.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK.
GARRISON: If you lie about something, does that make you a murderer? Does that afford the ability of the press to leap to certain assumptions that are not true?
VAN SUSTEREN: I totally agree with you. It does not. You know what? Being a liar doesn't mean you're a murderer. I totally agree with you on that. However, the thing that's so distressing to so many people is that this woman in jail won't cooperate with the police. She says the child's been kidnapped, but she wants to keep it a secret. She worries about herself and not the child. That's what's got everybody up in arms.
GARRISON: And who gave you that information? How do you know she's not cooperating right now? How do you know...
VAN SUSTEREN: The sheriff's department.
GARRISON: ... That Cindy Anthony and -- how do you know that Cindy and George Anthony aren't cooperating right now...
VAN SUSTEREN: They are.
GARRISON: ... With the police?
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, Cindy -- I've spoken...
GARRISON: Well, they...
VAN SUSTEREN: Cindy -- I've spoken to Cindy and George. Cindy's the one who reported the child missing. Cindy's the one who called the police, even called the police later to come in and come get clothes. I'm not saying Cindy and George. I'm telling you that the sheriff's department told four or five days ago told me that Casey, the mother, is not cooperating. That's my source.
GARRISON: Well, you know, that may be your source, but I'm privy to a lot of information here which affords me the ability to feel that this little girl is still alive. I'm wearing this bracelet right now, and I believe that there's a modicum of chance here that this spin is going out of control. I worked on the Aruba case, when people thought that Joran Van Der Sloot -- he came here. He went on national TV. He smoothed everybody over. In my opinion...
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me ask you a quick question. We got to go. Let me ask you a quick question. Give me something, give me some fact to operate on so that I can get rid of this horrible suspicion I labor under. Tell me one fact.
GARRISON: I'll tell you a few facts. One, this ping -- they live not too far from an airport and the woods, so the rumor you're hearing about the phone, it's erroneous.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. And...
GARRISON: And if your little girl...
VAN SUSTEREN: Give me another one quick.
GARRISON: I'm going to. The clothes in the trunk and DNA -- if your child had a dress on and there was a hair on the dress, then there's DNA in the trunk. Let's not lead to something that's not fair. Most important...
VAN SUSTEREN: We're going to...
GARRISON: ... Is there are three people -- Greta, there are three people that have come forward with sightings of this child.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I've got to go.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Larry. I'll see you -- come back Monday night, Larry. We'll finish this, OK?
GARRISON: All right, Greta. Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to see you, Larry.
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Woman who cloned pups may have criminal past
SALT LAKE CITY - A woman who made news around the world when she had five pups cloned from her beloved pit bull Booger looked very familiar to some who saw her picture: She may be the same woman who 31 years earlier was accused of abducting a Mormon missionary in England, handcuffing him to a bed and making him her sex slave.
A paper trail of court documents and jail booking information uncovered by The Associated Press suggests 57-year-old dog-lover Bernann McKinney is Joyce McKinney, who in 1977 faced charges of unlawful imprisonment in the missionary case. She jumped bail and was never brought to justice.
British tabloids first recognized the blonde woman's smiling face when she appeared in news photographs this past week with the five pit bull pups she paid South Korean scientists $53,000 to clone from her pet dog Booger who died two years ago.
There is indeed a striking resemblance between Bernann McKinney and Joyce McKinney. Arrest records and court documents for the two names over the years show other similarities: the same birth date and Social Security numbers, the same hometown of Newland, N.C., and Joyce McKinney's middle name is Bernann.
"It fits," said Utah filmmaker Trent Harris, who made a documentary about Joyce McKinney's case. He said photographs of McKinney and the dogs left him with no question about her identity.
"I said 'Oh my God, that's Joyce,'" he said.
Bernann McKinney has flatly denied any connections to Joyce McKinney and says she planned to take legal action against those who suggested otherwise.
"I'm filing a $10 million libel action and I don't think you want AP to be part of that," McKinney said before boarding a plane to return to the U.S.
While in South Korea, she told reporters she was a screenwriter and handed out business cards with a Hollywood, Calif., address. The AP found that address did not exist.
In a phone call later Friday to the AP, Bernann McKinney repeated she had nothing to do with the Mormon abduction story and only wanted to talk about the cloning of her dog.
"It's a story of courage, of a very brave service dog taking care of me. He passed away. I was so depressed. I had him cloned," she said.
The story of Joyce McKinney is the stuff of pulp fiction: a North Carolina-born beauty queen who moved west, won the title Miss Wyoming USA, converted to Mormonism and went on to college at Brigham Young University, where she became obsessed with a Mormon fellow student.
When that young Mormon took a missionary trip to England, authorities say McKinney hired a private detective so she could locate and follow him.
She and a male accomplice were accused of abducting the 21-year-old missionary as he went door to door, taking him to a rented 17th-century "honeymoon cottage" in Devon and chaining him spread-eagled to a bed with several pairs of mink-lined handcuffs.
There, investigators say, he was repeatedly forced to have sex with McKinney before he was able to escape and notify police.
In a 1977 court hearing mobbed by the British press, Joyce McKinney said she'd fallen head-over-heels in love with the Mormon man and acknowledged tracking him to England. "I loved him so much," she told a judge, "that I would ski naked down Mount Everest in the nude with a carnation up my nose if he asked me to."
But she denied a sexual assault, saying the young man was a willing partner.
"I have been played up as a very wicked and perverted woman," she told the court. "It's not true."
McKinney and her accomplice spent three months in a London jail before being released on bail.
Press reports at the time that said the pair then jumped bail, posing as deaf-mute actors in Ireland to board an Air Canada flight to Toronto and eventually a bus to Cleveland, where investigators lost their trail.
Joyce McKinney surfaced again in Utah in May 1984 and was arrested for allegedly stalking the workplace of the same Mormon man she was accused of imprisoning in England. News reports say that police found a length of rope and handcuffs in the trunk of McKinney's car, along with notebooks detailing the man's daily activities.
Set to stand trial for lying to police and harassment in 1986, McKinney again disappeared just before proceedings and the case was dismissed.
It now appears Joyce McKinney may have escaped justice in the long-ago British case also. London police told The AP they've consigned the case to the history books because of its age and won't seek McKinney's extradition.
The Associated Press obtained a copy of the 1984 Salt Lake County booking documents, which lists McKinney's full name, address, Social Security number and birth date. The AP compared the data to court and address records on file in North Carolina.
In both states, documents list McKinney's full name as Joyce Bernann McKinney and cite an Aug. 6, 1950, birth date, along with a hometown of Newland, N.C. A comparison of Social Security numbers on the documents show an exact match of the first five digits, the only numbers typically available in public records.
At the Avery County courthouse in McKinney's hometown of Newland in the western North Carolina mountains, a clerk said she instantly recognized the woman snuggling puppies as the Joyce Bernann McKinney who has a been a frequent defendant in court cases there.
"She is a person of note in our little community," said clerk Julia Henson.
Avery County Sheriff Kevin Frey said there are several charges on file against Joyce McKinney, including an active warrant seeking her arrest on a 2003 charge of communicating a threat against another woman.
Other charges include passing bad checks, an assault on a public officials and an 2004 animal cruelty charge alleging she failed to take proper care of a horse. That charge was dismissed.
James Stamey, the husband of the woman McKinney was charged with threatening, said McKinney left Newland about two years ago and no one had really seen or heard from her.
Until she showed up in the news about the cloned puppies.
"That's our Joy," Stamey said from his home in Newland.
Years ago, Stamey said, McKinney was a beautiful girl worthy of the Miss Wyoming USA crown.
"She's ugly as sin now," he said. "But, sure enough, that's her."
Associated Press
